Visibility Without the Algorithm

Kelly Sinclair: 00:00:00

Visibility is something that you need to do on a daily basis. And that doesn't mean speaking on a summit every single day or pitching a podcast every single day, but it can be just like the little pieces of of putting yourself out there in a way that has some kind of external connection you.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:00:26

This is the Entrepreneur School podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you, the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair, and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under three. I'm a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out on this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to entrepreneur school.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:01:14

I have a special episode for you today where I am actually bringing in the recording from an event that I was part of this last month called the empowered you Summit. So what you're going to hear is me being interviewed by Nicole Mattice, who is one of the hosts from empowered you coaching along with her partner and a friend of mine, Sherry Cameron. So I wanted to bring you this for a couple of reasons. One, obviously, I love the content inside of it, and you're going to hear how to determine the visibility strategies that will actually work for you that don't rely on social media. Hi, if you're new here, this is what we talk about all of the time, because I really want to break down that narrative that we believe in that social media is a requirement for success just it's just not true. I'm not about that. I want to give you all the other options. I also talk about the key to creating consistent visibility opportunities, as well as why and how to make visibility a habit that you can do in under 10 minutes a day. And the secondary kind of meta version of why this is showing up on my podcast is that when you are making an effort to get more visible leverage that share it everywhere, this is where social media does become handy, and where having your own platform can be a really great way to showcase other things that you're already doing. Like I am here for getting every every last, like mile out of everything that I do. So I spent the time I was part of this event. I have the recording, and I would love to share it with you here on the podcast. I also share clips from it on social media. I shared about the fact that I was doing it like visibility on visibility on visibility. It just it can stack, it can roll out like that. And I think it's really important to remember to leverage what you're actually doing so that it goes even farther. So enjoy this episode.

Nicole Mattice: 00:03:23

Kelly Sinclair is in the house. Hello, hi, hi, um, okay, great. I got your bio in front of the media. I'm moving all kinds of stuff around my screen. Okay, let's introduce the beauty here. Kelly is a CEO of Katy CO and she's a podcast host of entrepreneur School, an education hub for ambitious women who want to start and grow brands. She's an award winning marketer and brand strategist, a visibility coach and a girl mom of two, positively juggling hockey practices and marketing plans. I hear you. She's your very brand mother, waving the magic to give you the confidence, guidance and support you need to attract an audience of ideal buyers and to get to your next level of success. Ah, I can't even tell you how excited I am to be here with you.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:04:35

I am so excited to get to talk to you. Nicole, this is great.

Nicole Mattice: 00:04:39

It is great. So let's get started. Um, tell me a little bit about yourself and why? Why? Why this? Why entrepreneurs? Why women? Why branding? Why marketing?

Kelly Sinclair: 00:04:54

Yeah, so I think that in the end, we came up with a title for this talk called get see. Get clients visibility without relying on the algorithm. And that's because I talked to so many business owners, yeah and your face, who are just getting tired of feeling like we're obligated to be on social media, that it's an actual requirement in order to be successful. We're already getting heck yes from the audience, because this is just like a repeat narrative, and I think that there's a lot going on in the marketing space that makes us believe that this is true. And so algorithms are changing all the time. The features of all of these different platforms are changing all the time. You can wake up and not have an audience anymore on any day social media and like, how do we even compete with the people who are out there as influencers who are literally already paid before they even show up to post, right? And so my background is actually in public relations and communication, and I have done some form of marketing for companies from Fortune five hundreds to nonprofits to small businesses in dozens and dozens of different industries, and seen that it's not just about social media. In fact, I actually started working in this field before social media existed. I remember when we had to try and convince companies to get a social media account, and now we've gone so far in the other direction, it's crazy, right? And so it's about creating a customized plan that's going to work for your specific business. I feel like you want to chime in here. Nicole,

Nicole Mattice: 00:06:35

I said crazy. It's a mild description. I would choose other harsher, probably more inappropriate words. But, yeah, yeah, share brief, put me with you. She's been telling me all about this, so, yeah, okay,

Kelly Sinclair: 00:06:54

Yeah. I mean like and chime in if you're watching as well. To to this, like, share your current status when it comes to thinking about posting, right? If, like, you actually are running your marketing your week as you're waking up going, what do I have to post today? How do I put content out there? How do I get seen in this, like, big ocean of the internet? Because, like, on one hand, it seems like a good idea, right? Like, it's free, for the most part, to use these platforms. We can create an online presence, and we have the potential to reach anybody, right? Like, in theory, like, so all of those things have really supported our belief that we should use social media. We should prioritize it and like people, I know people who are paying for social media management and content support before they even have a visibility strategy. And that's the concerning part to me, is that your social media is one piece. It's one tactic within a broader umbrella that is visibility. And where I come from, in my stands, in my mountain that I will die on, is that you need to come up with a plan that you are a going to actually implement, because you like the things that are inside of it and B are going to work for you and your specific strengths and your schedule. Like, Are you a parent who, like me, starts their Uber shift at three o'clock in the afternoon, and has to be like running around all day, and I just don't have time to focus on just being on social media for the sake of posting. Is that resonating?

Nicole Mattice: 00:08:32

All day. Every day, I feel like I have this conversation not only with myself, but my bestie in business, and it's just, you know, for me, if I didn't have a business, I wouldn't have a social media account. That's the aversion that I have to social media. I've been watched to be a private person. My life is my life. You get access to my life because you're interested in it, not because you want to creep and compare and cut down and do all those things that are happening. And then you add a business on top of that, and you go, like, I don't want to be here. That's that's me. And then when asked the question, like, what am I even supposed to post? I don't even want to be here. So is so, yeah.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:09:19

Yeah. And so when you're thinking about it from that perspective where it just feels like an obligation and like you have to show up and figure out what you're trying to post. You're putting that energy into it, right? So, like, no wonder it's not going to work, it's not going to resonate, it's not going to lend you just going to create this self fulfilling prophecy where I spend all this time trying to figure out how to make a reel and I post it and nobody sees it. And what was the point? What a waste of time, right? So I think that there are some good things about social media. I love to participate in events like this, connect with the other speakers, to like showcase that I'm doing stuff to like, have a space that's not so static, like a website that allows you to really sort of still show up. Like you are a real person in a real business. That is, in fact, still happening, like you never know when the last time a website was updated. So you know, if I meet you at in person, at an event, we're probably going to connect on Instagram, and then we're going to DM each other and talk and build relationships. And so where I want to take this is that the most important piece around getting more visibility for you and your business is to build relationships. And so that's a matter of finding people, first of all, who you can think of as peers. So instead of that, like stressful, I have to go find clients. They have to go find clients. They have to go find clients. Where are my clients? Where are the people who are already bringing some of your potential clients together, and where can you create a relationship that will allow you to stand in equality with that person and have that automatic transfer of trust, right, like when I'm here on this stage, people who trust you? Nicole and Sherry, who brought this event together, and any of the other speakers who may have invited them to come here are already going to see me in a more trusting way. I'm not having to like into like, you know, start from scratch when it comes to that relationship. You kind of get a fast track in terms of that trust building, and we all know that trust building is one of the most essential pieces when it comes to making sales, because people need to know and like and trust you, right? They need to hear a little bit about you, get to know your personality, understand that you really are an expert in what you do and and hear some of those tips and have some of those breakthroughs where you shift the way they're thinking about things, and that's when they're going to come and and actually turn into clients for you. So I really always talk about the importance of relationships, and so when I'm using social media, even it's for relationships, when I'm thinking about how to get more visible and find ways to get in front of people. It's about the relationships that I have when I'm offering opportunities to people to be on my podcast, which is called entrepreneur school, then that is because I am giving them a platform, and I have a way of showcasing them, and it's around helping them, and that's a relationship building strategy, right? And then I can reach out to people and feel more, you know, confident in my own ask when I'm giving as part of a relationship, instead of even just thinking about, like, where do I go to find my clients? And you can apply this to a networking event, right? So say you like going to events instead of thinking, I'm going to this event to see who I can find as clients. Can you go to an event and see who you can find as collaborators, and see where that goes instead? Because I have countless examples of where I've been to an event or met somebody, and that relationship has just reciprocated into so many things happening. For example, I have a friend. She lives way down in Virginia, so far away from me, and I've actually met her as she's a an email marketing coach, and I've met her in person three times, and we have collaborated together on bundles that she's hosted. She's sent people directly to me. She's given me opportunities for podcasts and for speaking. I ended up actually speaking in Nashville because of a recommendation that she was able to give me. So it's about the long term effects of the relationships that you build.

Nicole Mattice: 00:13:37

Okay? And so I know you have two other points my so when I hear you say that, I get that except the what comes up for me is a are relationships online, even authentic? Do I knew who I'm reaching out to do? I trust that person, because I don't know if you're like me. But every day, I get people reaching out to me for relationships, and I start to have that conversation with them, and then about three or four messages in, boom, there it is. That's what you want to sell me. And it's like, that's not. And then I just I block them, like

Kelly Sinclair: 00:14:15

I don't get slapping you.

Nicole Mattice: 00:14:18

No. Go, off you go. And so that seems to me like a lot of energy and effort. I'm not opposed to putting energy and effort into my business, believe you, me, however, I want it to be authentic. I'd much rather talk to somebody like this, where I can see you. I can see what your body languages. I can see when you're turning in, tuning out, you know, that kind of thing. So can you just briefly speak to that? I know that's probably not part of your talk, but it's

Kelly Sinclair: 00:14:49

Okay. No, I love to hear what's coming up, because it's an important place to pause. And that is like relationship building should be authentic, right? And and so you start to create. Your Own boundary and your own understanding of what would make a good partnership. So if you were to go to an online networking event, for example, which there's 100,000 of them, so you could do that like five times a day if you wanted to, and you could have all of these coffee chats with people afterwards, right? But how do you refine who you're going to pick and the first and the one thing that I'll give you for this is like, audience alignment. So how do we like, really see how we align in terms of who we're both serving, and then you just use your spidey senses for the like. Well, is this person like of service? And is that what you know, is this the kind of person that I would want to hang out with? And so those would be a couple of qualification points before you, you know, start answering every like, if people are cold messaging me, I don't respond to that either, but an introduction right from someone. Or if, like, I will reach out to someone when I see them in my inbox because I follow them or whatever, and they send a I just asked someone to be in my podcast because she sent something that she had collaborated with two of my other mutual friends. I'm like, well, that feels like an invitation for me to be like, you know this person, you know that person. You should know me.

Nicole Mattice: 00:16:09

Right? Okay, awesome. I like that suggestion. Thank you.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:16:14

Yeah. And so just to carry on with this whole conversation, and I feel like I've already covered 2.1 is that social media is not a requirement for you to be successful and for you to get visible. So we can shift from that. The second one is that relationships are the core to helping you expand your visibility more quickly. And then the third one is really that visibility needs to become a habit. So this is, this is where the resistance comes in, right? It's like, oh well, it feels like it would be hard, or I will get more visible when I achieve some sort of goal, or it's like it's a reward for you having already done something. But in fact, it's actually the tool that gets you to where you want to go. So visibility is something that you need to do on a daily basis, and that doesn't mean speaking on a summit every single day or pitching a podcast every single day, but it can be just like the little pieces of of putting yourself out there in a way that has some kind of external connection. So that might be that you had a collaboration conversation with somebody about how you can refer business to each other like that is grassroots visibility that is so overlooked that can be going to a networking event in your community, we forget that there's people around us who we could physically socialize With and create relationships with, and that that relationship will go further, faster as well, like I've met Sherry In real life, and that is why, probably what's been like five years almost, now that I was invited to speak on this event, because we started that relationship a long time ago, and we've had a lot of crossing over and staying connected for all of this time, and that's how it continues to blossom. So as you the challenge that I made for myself and that I now support clients through, was to take a visibility tour essentially every single day, have something that you do that somebody else knows about. So that's how you know you're putting yourself out there, right? It's not that, oh, I changed my website copy, or I, you know, took a picture, or I made a video, but I didn't post it, any of those things. It's like, it involves somebody else. So you're connecting with someone. You're putting a line in the water, right? Like they say about putting fishing lines in the water, well, eventually those are going to start catching fish. And when you're doing it every day, you've got so many that you're building amazing momentum. And sometimes when you do something, you'll get a surprising result. One of the first things that I did, and this is just because I'm me, and I have a background in public relations, and so I also have relationships with the local media here in Cochrane, where I live, and even though I did, I was still nervous. So don't get me wrong, there, I wanted to pitch and tell them about my podcast. My head just launched. I wanted to share why it was great, and so I did a media outreach. They ended up being featured on the radio, online and in the physical print paper on the front page, like with a half page, this is 1000s and 1000s of dollars in advertising value. So that was incredible, right? The results there is like, Ooh, let's take this little win. But not that. It's just, how do I take this win and turn it into something else? Well, my podcast started to get noticed, and I was getting pitches from people who had literally no business being on my show, like, people who have owned a helicopter, and like, have big, huge events with 7000 people. And like, are multi, multi, multi, multi, multi millionaires. And also are on the Joe Rogan show. I'm like, uh, what are you doing? Talking to me, but let's talk. And then I take that and I turned it into a case story so that I could get a speaking opportunity in Nashville. And it's just the momentum, the momentum, it creates confidence. You see results. Some are little, some are big, some are yeses, some are nos. But either way, you're moving forward, and you can take that momentum and build so much traction for yourself and create the results that you're looking for in terms of visibility.

Nicole Mattice: 00:20:29

Wow, very, very, very cool. And congratulations in just being brave and going, Okay, I'm gonna go do this. Yeah, we have a question here. Can you give a couple other examples of what we can do? And I know that that's probably what you do in a consultation and whatnot. But just a couple more examples, sure.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:20:47

So if you like networking, go out to an event. If you are a speaker, pitch yourself for a podcast, right? Find a podcast host, somebody who's doing something like that. If you like email marketing, there are bundles that are happening. This is a whole big thing that's I've honestly grown my email list by over 1800 people in a year because of doing things like that, where it's a collaboration effort, and people are are sending out digital products, and they're getting access to it as part of a bigger bundle, which is a really fun thing to do, but sometimes it's just also to reach back out to a previous client, or someone that you had a discovery call with, like six months ago, and check in on them, like, get your face back in their world, because you know how it goes. We get busy. We were thinking about doing something, we talk, and then all of a sudden, three months go by and we forget that. Oh yeah, I was actually interested in what you were offering. It was just not, wasn't the right time. And that can sometimes turn into a client, like, really, really quickly. It's some of these really simple things that are not like, involving you making a media kid or anything fancy. It's just, it's just connecting, just talking to someone. It's just getting visible back into their world.

Nicole Mattice: 00:22:09

Right, right? And so what happens if you tend to be Patty says, Thanks. Like, a little bit of more, a more introverted kind of proper person. So, like possibly going in dressed up and being in a room by yourself with a whole bunch of strangers, they make you. I mean, get uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. However, what would you say to that?

Kelly Sinclair: 00:22:35

Yes, yeah, without giving you all the excuses as to why you shouldn't have to do it is you do have to get a little bit uncomfortable Absolutely, because that's going to create amazingness. You'll see what you're capable of, right? That's really like what this whole summit is about to show you that you are capable of so much more than you believe that you are. But it's also about taking baby steps, right? And doing something that feels like progress for you, that's on your own measuring stick. That's why there is no cookie cutter plan. There is no one size fits all approach to visibility, and I really like to work directly with people to identify what your strengths are and what your top opportunities will be, in order to get you visible in a way that feels good for you, that's going to align with your energy, your personality, your style, your introvertedness or your extrovertedness, whatever it is that you want to prioritize.

Nicole Mattice: 00:23:33

I love that. I love the non cookie cutter, because it's like, you know, you're looking at body over here, and it's like, well, I guess I should be doing that. Sherry and I talk about this all the time, because we, we, we came into, in a partnership and into our businesses, going, I don't want to be like everybody. I am not like everybody else. Take me, love me, hate me, let them go. Do whatever. However, this, this, these shoulds, well, we should do that. And it's like, why should we? But then it's like, okay, then what's the next like, I can like our talk, what's the next step? I mean, we can answer that for ourselves, but yeah, I love cookie cutter approach. Thank you for giving that to us as entrepreneurs.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:24:23

Yeah, I mean, we can get, we get so frustrated trying to follow everyone's roadmaps, right? And a lot of the time if we're still in this DIY phase, we are not seeing the whole picture, and so it looks like they just did this. Or we try, we get a piece of a plan, like I said, a visibility strategy, would be your entire umbrella that covers everything that you do that has to do with marketing. And spoiler alert, a lot of those things come to back to understanding your brand, who your ideal clients are, how to message yourself and position yourself, not just like, what are the things that I need? To do. But the what are the things that I need to do come from the alignment with knowing what your brand is, why you're different, and how to make you stand out, right? Versus a lot of the times we will get caught up in the shiny objects of like, oh, I need this Instagram course, or I need this thing that's going to teach me how to make a summit, or I need this thing that's going to, like, cover this tiny little piece, and that's like, I don't know, I don't have a good analogy. That's like trying to build a chair with one leg and then stack everything on top of it and not let that piece of wood fall down in the process.

Nicole Mattice: 00:25:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful.It is like that, yeah. So we have six minutes left. So anything further that you want to share from your three points?

Kelly Sinclair: 00:25:48

Yeah, so I think that what I want you to know is that it's entirely possible to build a visibility habit that can take you as little as 10 minutes a day, like we're not talking about like, every day you get up and then you have to hustle and create, like, a whole new pitch for yourself. You're not constantly reinventing yourself. You're just doing little pieces that are helping you build momentum. Because after time, and I have been doing this consistently for myself for over a year now, because I just keep seeing the results, and every like 60 to 90 day window creates amazing opportunities. I get on podcasts. I get invited to talk at amazing events like this. I'm part of other collaborations. I'm getting people who are saying yes to being on my show, like it's turning into new clients, new exposure in front of new people, and it's all a matter of just, like, keeping that wheel in motion right so you can build it, and it doesn't have to be overwhelming once you get your strategy that's customized to you and your system that's going to work for you to, like, cut and paste certain things, like, If you want to be on podcasts. I got five podcasts in one day last month, like I landed five podcast opportunities, and that's because I had my bio handy, and I had all the things that I needed to like, fill out the forms once they, you know, offered me the invitation, and those are the pieces that I help people put together inside of the programs that I offer as well, just to make it really simplified and streamlined, so that you're not like, constantly reinventing the wheel, and it's the ripple effect. Like, I've seen amazing ripples happening. And I love to play this game sometimes where it's like, if I never did this, then I would have never gotten that right. And it all started back when I got up the courage to do that media pitch that led to that podcast interview, that led to the speaking opportunity in Nashville, which, PS, I used to always want to be a country singer, and so me speaking on a stage in Nashville was like the highlight of my childhood dreams. And then the people that I met in the room in Nashville have created, we've done podcast collaborations together, we've I've done affiliate partnerships, like lots of things have just come out of it, and the ripples are still going, right? And that's the amazing part. It's like, well, this thing that happened, it didn't just come overnight. It came because of all of the things that I've done to build up to it. And I think that you can embrace the excitement of, like, not knowing what's going to happen when you do something. Sometimes we're like, ooh, should I do that? I don't really know how it's going to what's going to result in? What if you could just shift that into, what exciting things might come out of me taking this action? And sometimes it's the simplest little things. It's the one single email that you sent, that you knew, that you had on your list, that you just been pushing off and pushing off. And we all have this on our list, and we're going to go do it right after this event. You're going to go do that thing. That's the thing that could create the amazing opportunity for you, and you're just that close. You're one step away. It doesn't have to be all of these things combined. You're just one step away.

Nicole Mattice: 00:29:14

It's just one step. And then the next step reveals itself. Yeah, so you have some gifts for us, and so I am putting in the chat your first gift to everybody, yes. You want to

Kelly Sinclair: 00:29:30

Yes. So the ultimate visibility toolkit is it's just going to shortcut you. If you're like, what should I be doing? There are like, 30 plus proven visibility strategies in there, and in a very easy calendar format, so you can even make your plan and say, This is what I'm going to do on each day for the next 3060, 90 days, however long you want to use it for. And then there's a bonus gift. So if you sign up for that, you're also going to see an invitation to jump on a 15 minute visibility ROI call with me. Which means I will help you identify what your number one priority will be when it comes to getting you more visible. So you just, once you go through that checkout, it'll be coming to your inbox and invitation to do that, and if not, just send me direct message, and I'll make sure that you get that invitation exclusively for you.

Nicole Mattice: 00:30:18

Oh, awesome. Well, I'm, I'm available at 4:35 today. So, yeah, I'm just kidding.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:30:25

We'll bring a glass of wine. I think.

Nicole Mattice: 00:30:29

Of course, you have your VIP gift for anyone who upgrades to that VIP ticket. This is one of the things that you will get.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:30:39

Yes, so that is an audio course. It's a bingeable audio course talking about all of the different ways to get visibility that don't rely on social media. My thoughts and opinions on how you can utilize different strategies and some of the details about how you'd actually go about determining which kinds of of things, like podcast guesting, speaking, sponsorships, collaborations, all those things and how to evaluate what's going to be the best for you, and it's just Lunchable and short.

Nicole Mattice: 00:31:11

Oh, awesome. Thank you, Kelly, we are out of time, and I can't wait to collaborate.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:31:19

Yeah, same. Thank you so much for having me.

Kelly Sinclair: 00:31:24

You did it. You just listened to another episode of the Entrepreneur School podcast. It's like you just went to business school while you folded your laundry, prepped dinner or picked up your kids at school. Thank you so much for being here. I want to personally celebrate your commitment to growing your business, you can imagine I'm throwing confetti for you right now. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave us a review. Make sure you're subscribed and let us know you're listening by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram. Head to entrepreneurschool.ca. For tons of tools and resources to help you grow your business while keeping your family a priority, you can subscribe to our email list and join our community and until next time, go out there and do the thing you.