Turning Failure into Fuel

The big shift that has to happen is understanding that there is no such thing as failure. And when you start to say to yourself, I am not fair, I am not a failure because you cannot be a failure because failure is not a characteristic. It is just, it's just data.

This is the Entrepreneur School Podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under 3am, a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey, and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to Entrepreneur School.

Hello, welcome back, my friend, I am excited to introduce you to another amazing guest today on the podcast. I have interviewed and Natalie pin Shum, and she is a success in business coach for driven entrepreneurs who want to get to the top of their game in life and business and enjoy life a whole lot. She helps ambitious driven professionals who know their mentor more take their expertise out of the nine to five and turn it into a profitable online business. And in addition to being a Business Coach and Trainer, she's a certified professional coach with ICF, or coaching programs sets her apart in the online business industry focused on hustle fairs, inner work later approach. And she is your coach that you come to when you are tired of working flat out and trying to get your message out. And still putting the same goals on your list every year, we had a really great conversation about failure and learning and pressures of other people in business. And I'm really excited for you to listen to this one. It's such a great mindset shift and a great reminder that I think we all need because we've gone through different phases of business of, you know, pushing and hustling and burning out and losing our confidence and wondering when we're going to get to quote success. And we had this great conversation about redefining what that looks like for yourself. Something that I love talking about. So I can't wait for you to listen to this. And I also want to let you know that Natalie is the podcast host and you can find her over at the show your success tonic. It's a podcast where she shares tips, research and inspiring conversations around building meaningful success in life in business. She is also a mother of one amazing teenager she has two cats, and she loves following every kind of car racing with her son or her guilty. Pleasure is watching reality TV. So you're really gonna love Natalie, this conversation and check her out on her podcast where you'll also find an episode with me over there at some point as well. So I'm excited for you to listen.

Natalie, I'm so excited to have you on Entrepreneurs School today.

Thank you Kelly. I couldn't be happier to be here to chat to you.

Yeah, I'm pumped about this as kind of like a follow up. We've had a conversation where I was a guest on your podcast, provide everybody the name of your podcast so they can go find it.

It's Your Success Tonic, and Kelly just came in shone brightly on the podcast, so you have to check out her episode on it as well.

Yes and if it's out at the same time, I'll make sure that we link it below so that we can see each other's it's always great. I love being a podcast host and meeting other podcasters and then having conversations on each other shows especially when we have aligned audiences and and some you know, aligned vision and beliefs and values ourselves. So it's it's going to be a great conversation and looking forward to it.

Me too. Me too.

Yeah, so first one are you tell everyone just a little bit about yourself so that we can dive into the conversation we're going to have about the F word today being failure and and what we how we can think about that differently. And I think it's a really important conversation.

Yes, I do too. Thank you, Kelly. I think that it's a it's a big one and it doesn't matter what your career is or in no or your focuses. Those feelings of failure always come up. But yeah, so just a bit about me first, I'm a success coach for entrepreneurs, so I really help them grow the business are built around their strengths. And that's really my focus and to help simplify things, because one of the things when you become an online entrepreneur is that there's a lot of opinions, a lot of advice, a lot of resources out there, and it can get seriously overwhelming, really, really quickly. And, and it can be hard to know where to focus in your business to, you know, it might not match somebody else's story, it might not match somebody else's trajectory. So it's not easy to to just, you know, follow a blueprint. And so that's where, you know,

I love that so much. Because I, I feel like, you know, so many people out there are sharing their, quote, like what you just said, blueprints there, follow my step by step way of how I did what I did. And that's great, because they clearly had the success that they had, and they're now willing to share with others, and why wouldn't you follow a blueprint or give someone you know, somebody could hand you a map instead of you try to navigate it yourself. And that should be quote, so much easier. How cool where it doesn't always work out that way. Because there's so many other factors in your own business and your own, like goals and your own style and your own everything that play into it right. And so right away, it can start to feel like you're failing when you feel like you tried to especially invest in something that was supposed to help you do this faster and easier.

Exactly. And I was actually my experience starting out as well. And I know a lot of my clients have had that experience. They, they thought, well, you know, I've got this program, it's highly regarded, it's really well known program, it's going to be great. And then you do that, and you learn a lot, but it might just not be the right fit for you at this particular point in your journey. And so then, yes, that feeling of like, well, what am I doing wrong? It's easy for other people, you know, everyone is saying, this is easy. It's not easy for me. So what is it that I'm doing wrong? And that is just the horrible place to be. And because then you go into this kind of downward spiral where you're starting to lose confidence, you start to second guess everything that you do, you start to spend a lot of time researching, studying, trying to figure out what's, what's the right way to go about it. Yeah, I wanted to just not allow people to do that, because I rent. It's really horrible. Yes. I'm here to help. Yeah. Let's not go there.

That speaks that rings. So true. I've definitely gone through many versions of that experience myself, too, because we're always, we always have this like ambition, right? And here's where I want to be. And, and also, here's where other people are released, where I believe that they are based on what they're showing to the world, and you never really even know, like how true that necessarily is. And then you just, you're constantly falling short, and you're chasing it right? So how do we reframe that?

I think one of the one of the biggest shifts that needs to happen is, is really an internal shift, right. So that's where having a coach can make all of the difference, because you can have amazing strategy. But without that the the reframe that you're talking about, without that kind of internal shift, then you're going to have the best strategy in the world. And it's just, you're going to constantly come up against these brick walls that you're going to hit. And it's really a lot to do with, like internal narratives around what success really means. And what being successful should look like. And also habits of playing small of just wanting to stay small, maybe fear around visibility, which I know is something that you work with your clients around, which is such a huge block, there's so many people. And so when we, you know, when we start to go into all of that and start looking at all these patterns, these these stories, the big thing is to really approach it with curiosity and compassion. And I think that the reframe is really I'm learning just like everyone else is and I am right on time with my path, you know, there isn't I'm not behind, everyone isn't further ahead than me. And if they are, they're also you know, they're doing their thing and I'm doing mine and where I am is just fine. You know, I think that that's that anything that you can do when you're in that place of just exploring these very Do you know entrenched patterns and thought processes, anything you can do to kind of soften the energy around it and the pressure, that's going to start to release some of that tension and start to allow you to start to think about it in a very, very different way.

Yes, you're pointing out for sure that we are our own worst critics, right? We give ourselves such a hard time about not being like, I love how you said that I'm right on time, in my journey right now. Yeah, and that's in that we were kind of having a pre chat before we got on here. And, again, we're going recording this in advance, but we've just rolled over a new year, and there's so much pressure at this time of year to feel like you've got to have these goals set. You've gotta like, you know, change your diet and do all these things right away. And it's January 3, you're already behind. And like, we just feel like we've failed so quickly, before you and given ourselves a chance to, you know, go at our own pace.

Yeah. And then it does, it comes back to this, you know, idea of the answers, you're looking for answers outside of you, right, so you wanted to step into someone else's, you know, program, or they're the perfect way to set goals, the perfect way to to build your, your presence online, you know, you're pushing yourself to follow someone else's plan. But really, you know, the real answers are always inside. And so having that self confidence and that self trust, or reconnecting to yourself confidence, because as I said earlier, you know, entrepreneurship can really hammer your confidence, it can really, really, you know, put some, you know, deadly blows to it. So you're reconnecting to that confidence and learning to trust that you know, the right way forward for your business. And that also not, doesn't just take the pressure off, you know, it allows you to find the right help the right match for you, you know, someone who's, who's going to come alongside and guide you in a way that feels right to you, as opposed to you pushing and forcing into something. And also building a business that's built around what you value the most, and what you want to put out into the world, which is also so important.

Yeah. And I want to come back to something that you said a few minutes ago about having your own definition of success. And I know this is something that you like to talk about, for sure. And so how do you sort of frame that for people so that they can think about what their own definition of success is? And maybe share your own with us?

Oh, yeah, I'd love to, because I think that, you know, when we are, you know, growing up, and when we start out in our first jobs, we are taught that working harder, is what gets us results, right? Many of us are taught that and we've internalized the idea that when we're not getting the results we want, we just need to put in a little bit more effort work a little bit harder. And then the success that comes on the other side of that is external recognition of the result that you produced. And then you know, and so a lot of us associate success with certain markers of success that we've been told, that's what success is right? Like, you know, more qualifications, more awards, etc. In it, usually, it's financial rewards, and all of those things. But, you know, stepping out of that mindset of like we have, when I'm stuck, the thing I have to do is dig in and work harder. That is the hardest thing to do, right? Because this is just how we've been wired and what we've been taught. And so when we are working really, really hard. And we're doubling down on our efforts, and we're going all in on the business because that is what we've been told to do, right? When you start your business, you got to go all in, you're not, you know, no, no wavering, and doo doo doo doo as much as you can. And so you do that. And when you don't get the financial reward for all that hard work, you're gonna do, you're not just you're not bringing in the clients, you're not seeing the sales that you're looking for, or you're not getting any acknowledgement of the content that you're creating and putting out there that can just feel like a terrible, terrible blow. And so that is the opportunity that we have as entrepreneurs, is to start to think about what does success truly mean? And, you know, what does it feel like, when I get to really show up in a way that matters the most? To me, you know, and so that we can kind of move out of that frame and start to think about, you know, how can I generate the results that I, that I really want? And, and yes, there's a financial, of course they are, you know, as a business owner, you have to have money coming in, otherwise you don't have a business. So, but it's so much to do with that internal sense of, of like, pushing, pushing, pushing, and telling myself, I am failing, if I'm not getting there. And so when I started my business, I 100% felt that I came from having being used to success, you know, being used to working hard, and getting the results. And, and so I was completely bewildered, totally bewildered, and I had no understanding of what was what I was doing wrong, you know, I really thought I must be doing something completely wrong. Everyone else has this figured out except for me. And I have no idea. You know, what is it, I'm following these blueprints, I'm following all these programs, I'm doing all the things I want to hold. And I'm working, you know, extra hard, you know, getting out earlier than I did when I had my job, and going to bed, really, really late. And, you know, sacrificing a lot in order to get to that level of success. And I know, so many of us are out there doing that. And then, you know, I hit I hit full burnout. I really did, I just I couldn't, I just hit a point where I could no longer function in that way anymore. And I knew it wasn't serving me. And it wasn't taking me anywhere I actually wanted to go. And so that's when that I had that real, deep journey inward, to find this very new way of thinking about how I want to create the results that I'm really looking for. And that's the thing is really, you know, being able to be curious, around know, well, this isn't working for me. So what might work for me, you know, what, what kind of what kind of ways of doing and thinking do I need to learn about because there's a whole other way of doing it, you know, it can be fun and easy. It's like, when you have that figured out? Oh, my goodness, it feels incredible.

And yes. And I imagine I'm curious to know, when you talk about the results that you're looking for, what does that mean? What are some of those, like markers for you? And how did those expand beyond just, you know, the financial results and the impact that you have inside of your business?

Yeah, I think the you know, like I said, I think a lot of people, when they start with with the business, they are looking for very specific markers of success. And usually those are purely financial. But many of us who started businesses actually have a real vision for something that we want to bring into the world. And it is usually something that ties in very deeply with the magic that we have inside, you know, the strengths and the talents and that sort of beautiful cocktail of something that unique and special that we want to share with the world. And finding how to do that you know what form that should take creating a business around that means that we want to start thinking about connecting with others in a different way. We want to start to create an schedule that is nurturing to us to other people, to the people that come into the business so that there isn't this sense of pressure, and just discomfort that a lot of people have around sales around marketing around growth, you know, when you think about growth, what does that look like for you and, and for, for many people who are vision driven, that really means about impact, you know, when you start to really tiny into that deeply, you know, I want to connect with this many people so that I can help them with the thing that I'm uniquely gifted to help them with. And so that they can then do something amazing as well and feel great about what they're doing. I mean, then that starts to create this ripple effect and you start to feel like the work you do really is meaningful and matters to you. And when you when you can do that. Yeah, then it's not work anymore, you know, and but it's it's, it's very, it's not easy to get to that place. That was my experience anyway.

Yeah, absolutely. And I was going to say like, in some of the work I've done lately, like internal work that I've done lately, I've had the realization that, like, that is a great like goal, right. And we're as driven and vision, impact driven entrepreneurs, we do really put a lot of value in what we can do to help other people. But if there's still a link missing, and you are not able to get the clients for whatever reason, then you feel even less, like, successful, because, and I think it's because you're attaching your personal worth, to your ability to, to help other people. And that sends you back into that spiral of not feeling like you're good enough, and then questioning everything that you do, and wondering whether you even have what it takes to be an entrepreneur or the skill set to like deliver on what it is that you want to do. And it just, it can be like a little mucky hole. So for me, now success has to also involve just my own, the things that I can control, right? Like my schedule, the flexibility, that I have the ability to be home with my kids when I need to be and take them where they need to go and to give them the life that I want to give to them and the role that I get to play in that. And leaning into both that and as equally valuable as any success that I can have inside of my business is helping to like reconcile what that looks like and have a bit more of a, I guess, holistic view on six goals and being able to move forward towards both of those things at the same time.

Yes, they love that. And I think one of the one of the first shifts that I made when I was going from that place of really struggling and self doubt and, and just not getting results that I wanted, though, one of the first shifts I made was to start to, you know, design my schedule, and my life around how I wanted it to look like when I was a success. And so what that meant was, I'm not working till 9pm. Because if I'm successful, no, I'm not working till 9pm. I finished my work at a specific time. And then I have time for my family and I have time for self care. And I have time to go to yoga and I have time to go for walks. I don't just say well, no, I can't I have to do. You know, there's 10 Other things about Thomas, I have to do. You know, that's not what you do, when you're in that state of feeling like your work is fruitful and productive and serves an important purpose. So the designing my my schedule was one of the first things I did. And it really changed how I felt coming into my day every day. And it's it definitely helped reframe that sense of like scram, I'm not scrambling, I'm not frantic, you know, taking some of that frantic energy out is really, really powerful. And I think that, you know, behind that fear of failure that's driving that kind of energy, right? That kind of frantic work kind of focus is really, you know, the big shift that has to happen is understanding that there is no such thing as failure. And when you start to say to yourself, I am not a failure, I'm not a failure, because you cannot be a failure, because failure is not a characteristic. Right? It is just, it's just data, right? It's what I always tell my clients, you tried something and it didn't work, it's just time to move on to the next thing to try it, you know, you just got it, you just didn't use the tools that you needed, you didn't have everything aligned. But now you have something to work with. Because now you know that that didn't lead to what you want it. So now you just have to move on from that. So this there is no such thing as failure. Because first of all, we can't be failures. And second of all, everything that you're doing is information, super valuable information to what you're going to do next. And that the thing that you need to do is to iterate as fast as possible is to learn, you know, okay, that didn't work, and give yourself a deadline to try something out, stick with it, and then just say, Okay, I tried that. And you know, it, I got this was the positive thing that came out of it. And then these were the things I didn't like so much. So what's next, you know, and that's, this is again, when, you know, having coaching is so helpful, because that's, you know, having that constant By reframing a constant reminder of these things, and putting it into context and getting the right tools at the right time, while that just that just propels you out of that state really, really fast.

Yeah, and that is a tricky one, the speed and the pace entrepreneurs, right, because we put so many things on our to do list. And then we think that we have to, we have to get all this done today, vn get it done, then you are like, I'll just work later because I can, or whatever, instead of like giving yourself all of the other pieces or factors, I truly believe that like, you're going to start feeling heavier, you're gonna feel more like pressure that you're putting on yourself, if you are working at that pace versus working at the pace, like you said, Where what how you would be, if you were, quote, successful if you were at that place that you're trying to get to. So that's that whole like, manifestation of like, B. B Do you have, right?

Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that shifts when you're in that state of like I am, I'm working towards my success, you know, when you start to think of it like that, as opposed to I'm not successful, it's, if you start to think I'm working towards my success, and everything I'm doing is leading me that way, then your, the way that you approach, everything shifts. And one of the key ways that I found that really shifted was, was being even more willing to take risks that every entrepreneur is a risk taker, you have to be it to be an entrepreneur, you have to be you have to have a certain tolerance for risk, you know, you wouldn't be in it otherwise. But you can, when you start to think of it in this way of like, I'm on, I'm on the right, you know, I'm on the right track. And what I'm doing is just helping me get better at what I do, then you can much more easily take a bigger risk. And this those bigger risks that really get you the bigger rewards as well. And so that is such a valuable experience and stop thinking of yourself as just like, isolated, and like you're the only one who's missing. And it's all for you know, that's that's another big piece of it.

Oh, absolutely. Because we're over here going. Yeah, I had amazing hands relating willingly Tuesday, for sure. Thank you so much for this insightful conversation, it's been very eye opening and to set good reminder when we get into that place. Because sometimes we don't notice, right, that we've kind of dug ourselves into a bit of a hole because it's like little things that happen or don't happen along the way, that all of a sudden you go, how did I get over here, you know, if you're not reflecting back regularly, which is something we often forget to do, because we're so focused on whatever the goal is to so yeah, I think would be really helpful conversation for anyone to listen to. And on that note, please let everybody know where they can continue to connect with you where they can reach out if they have follow up questions or if they're interested in working together with you.

Oh, I would love anyone to reach out with any thoughts or questions on our conversation. You can find me on LinkedIn @nathaliepincham. And also on my website storytonic.co. And yeah, there's always fun stuff happening. There's my podcast, and then workshops happening all the time. So come and chat.

Excellent. All of those links will be below and it's Natalie within Ah,

Yes. Yes, it is. French spelling. I'm Natalie. Yes.

Thank you very much for your time today.

Thank you, Kelly.

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