Why Your Last Launch Didn’t Work Like You Wanted

That's what the pre launch is all about. Is really establishing the beliefs the person has to have before they're ready to buy from you, so that when you do open your cart that you have and what my goal is in my program and my clients and anyone listening for you to have an eager list of people that are ready to buy from you. You

This is the entrepreneur school podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you, the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair, and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under three. I'm a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to entrepreneur school.

Here's what you need to know about my guest today, Brenna McGowan. She is a launch strategist and a copywriter, and she invented anticipation marketing, which is the idea of having a pre launch where you're very specific and intentional about content and conversations that you're having during a four to six week period prior to actually opening the doors and closing the doors on an offer that you may want to sell. And if you're wondering why your launches maybe haven't worked in the past, lack of a pre launch is probably one of the reasons. So I'm really excited to share this conversation with you. We talked about everything from like, the details of how pre launch works, how you can incorporate that into your next launch. What kind of business this is good for, as well as how it really supports you in building a lifestyle first business, Brenna is a mom. Her kids are growing up and moving out of the house these days, so that's where she's at in her life, and she talks about some of the case studies of how she's actually used pre launch to support her business as well. She totally practices what she teaches. And I can't wait for you to hear this.

All right, I'm so excited to bring Brenna McGowan onto the show. I low key, stalked her and made her join my podcast. The funny story about this is, and I keep sharing these stories because people are asking me, like, how are you like getting connected with these people who you know we like look at as mentors. And I would definitely say that I look at you that way, Brenna. And the answer is, I ask. I ask for, for the opportunities. And I thought that you had collaborated with a couple of friends of mine, and so I just decided that was an invitation for me to connect with you directly and ask you to be on the show. So thanks for being here today.

Thank you so much. It's funny when people ask, like, how my career has progressed, I say the same thing, like, I've gotten really good at asking, even when I even sometimes expect a no, and you never know when those like surprise yeses come. So I couldn't agree with you more.

Yeah, totally, it is just about like getting over that little bit of fear of rejection. And even if you do get a no right, you still feel some kind of hit of adrenaline for having made the ask in the first place. And then you can use that to continue to build your momentum up on whatever else it is that you need to push and stretch yourself to do. Right?

So true And funny enough. I know we're going to be talking about kids and but my daughter earlier this year, she had a situation where she did something really scary, and I'm like, how did she do it? And she said, There's no such thing as rejection, either it's meant for me or it's not, and so I don't take it as rejection. And I was like, whoa. Like, so insightful from an 18 year old. And I think it's a great, a great thing for all of us to keep in mind business life, right, that there's no such thing as rejection. It's whether things were made for you or they're not made for you. And then you go at that that perspective that asks becomes much easier, because when you do get that now you're like, Okay, this wasn't, this wasn't the thing that was made for me for right now. And I'm okay with that.

Oh my gosh. That is an amazing perspective, and I love that she already has that, like as an 18 year old. So let's start there. Let's talk about your family a little bit, because your kids are growing up and leaving and a different a different part of your life, then I know we had a little chat before we started the show about how you thought you were going to feel when you your kids were growing up and leaving the house, versus how you actually feel in the. How your business supports you through all of that.

Yeah. So I have a 21 year old son, an 18 year old daughter, 17 year old daughter, and last year, my son graduated, but he stayed at home and was working towards getting a career in the fire service, which he just got hired on as a firefighter at a department, which is really exciting, mostly exciting for me too, because once he got that job, I was like, Oh, good, he's not gonna move away. Like, it's funny how all these years, you're like, Look, I can't wait till my kids leave me alone, and then all of a sudden, like, something clicks, and you're like, No, no, come back. Like, stay close to me. So that was Jack, and then my daughter last year was a senior in high school. My middle daughter and she had already secured a soccer scholarship, so I knew she was leaving for college. And it was, it was a really, we can talk about that more, but last winter was an extremely tough winter for me with Jack, when he graduated high school, and I think, too, probably he's a boy or relationship was a little bit different. Yeah, I was like, okay, he's gonna graduate. And after he graduated from high school, I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, I got like, really sad, and I felt like I didn't properly mourn it, if that's the right way, like I didn't really think through it too much. So I did the opposite with Kate. When Kate was graduating high school, I was sad all year long, and I knew that she was going to be leaving the house. And then I have a daughter who's one year behind her in school, so it's been this really interesting, hard, wonderful transition of going from, you know, and I was a stay at home mom, primarily when they were younger, so going from essentially stay at home mom to now having kids that are leaving, and I didn't even realize it. I started my business when I was 40, and I think it was God, like giving me a path. Because I think if I didn't have this at this point, I would be a complete mess.

Oh my gosh, yeah. Like, let's talk about starting a business at 40.

Yeah, it was I did it by accident. Ignorance helped me in starting my business. So I was 40, and I was working kind of like odd jobs for people so that I could, I volunteered at my kids school. I was the one that picked them up and dropped them off at school. So, like, my kids were always and still are my first priority. And so what ended up happening is this job I was working for, like, as a contractor, they pulled back on my hours, and I was like, Oh no. Like, I like having, I always say, like, I started, there's a few things. I started my business off of ignorance and vanity, because I was like, oh, I want to still be able to, like, go get Botox once in a while and, like, do the electric bill and have this little, like, extra bit of money. And so I was like, Well, why don't I? And at the same time, speaking of vanity, I had a friend who was starting an esthetician business and doing and she does fake eyelashes, and I wanted, I wanted the eyelashes at the time. So I was like, why don't I do like your Instagram and your email marketing, and will give me eyelashes like we'll trade. And she was like, Cool. But people started to like what I was doing. I had no idea what I was doing, but it was doing it for a local company. It was getting attention. And I was like, Oh, this could be a business. So I, like one, I kind of prepped a few things and put it out on Facebook one day, like, Hey, I'm doing essentially social media management. If you want to hire me, hire me. And I got clients right away. So it was accidental. But like I said, I think I'm so happy now because of having the kids that are older now, you know, like, I think about this weekend my daughter is two soccer games. Like, I can take off tomorrow or and be at the soccer games. I have my other daughter who needed my help this morning. Like, all of these things that the business allows me to do that I wouldn't sometimes I would do think like, oh, it'd be so much easier to have a job. And then I forget, right? Like, the flexible you can't there's no exchange for the flexibility I have with the business.

Oh my gosh, yes, that is such a good reminder. And sometimes, like, I have to remind myself that too, that, like, what I chose was the opportunity to work from like nine to 230 while my kids are at school, there's no that that doesn't exist otherwise, and my kids activities start at like four o'clock, like, what the hell? How you're supposed to get them there? And I'm watching other parents with jobs having to literally pay people to drive their kids to stuff because they can't get back in time to, you know, attend a hockey practice or whatever it is. So you're so right to recognize that and underscore that. And I just wanted to highlight it too for people listening like sometimes there is so much value in just your flexibility, regardless of the whole. All, how much money is my business making, and all this stuff, like, is the flexibility really helping with bringing you joy and creating that life that you want? And I know that you're all about building your business around your lifestyle, which is why I don't want to join the podcast, because we talk about that all the time. But let's talk about, like, how you do that with what you do in your business. So you've evolved, like so many people, very interestingly, from social media management to becoming a pre launch strategist.

Yeah, so I started that business as social media manager, and decided quickly that I hated it and and I think that's the other beautiful part about online business, right? It's like you're you're not stuck. You get to create your own path. Now, I'm not saying it's easy, or that it just like falls in your lap, but you can start to pivot and go, Okay, this isn't what I wanted. So I was doing social media management, and I disliked it. I always say, Lord bless the social media managers. It's not an easy job, and I pretty quickly pivoted to email copywriting. And email still like my first love, but I also throughout the experience, I was doing all kinds of copy. I was writing website copy and landing page copy, and I started writing copies for launch, and especially because I was doing a lot of email, and I started to see this hole in the market, which is pre launch, which is what you say and do and write right before you put an offer in front of someone. So much you know, social media management, content world is all about nurturing, engaging, right? And then we get into like, the promotional, the copywriting part, which is the conversion, and the way that my brain started to see it was like, oh, there's this, like, beautiful part before you go into full blown promotion, and where you kind of step out of nurture, moving people, and that's where what ends up happening with a traditional launch or a promotional period. And that's all launches. To me, it's just a specified time of when you're going to promote something. A launch has been, like, blown up in the online world. To be this, this huge, overwhelming task. Like, that's not the way I see it. But I started to see like, okay, instead of it feeling so abrupt, like, one day we're nurturing our person, the next day we're trying to get them to buy from us, whatever, until we like, merge that time of like, combining the content, you know, the emails that you're writing, the whatchamacallit, Instagram posts that you're doing, LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever you're doing that, and actually prepping people before you put an offer in front of them. Because so often it feels very abrupt, like one day we're just, like, going on, like going on, like our normal business lives, and next day you're trying to sell someone something. So I and then I also noticed, too, with helping people with launches, is that I had a couple of launches that didn't go well. And as a copywriter, you feel very responsible when you're writing the sales copy to help someone sell. And so we started to think, I started to think, like, what, what's missing here? And what was missing was this runway period where people weren't properly warming up, properly prepping someone, properly getting someone in the right mind frame to buy from you, or the for someone to self select and decide that they're not ready to buy from you. So essentially, I've created, now a framework. I have a program where I walk people through this step by step process, like I said, what to say, when to say it, before you put an offer in front of someone.

Yes, I love that you already were like, sort of myth busting regarding launching. I remember the first time I even heard about that concept of launching, where it's like, just like you said, it's just a time where you're specifically talking about a specific offer, like, for, you know, for a certain amount of time, versus the idea that you're always selling on social media or in your content, right? So this is, like, how we differentiate that. But the other piece of like, the launch, where I was like, Oh, I I learned that, you know, this whole concept of, like, open cart, close cart, seven days, urgency, scarcity, marketing strategy, like, all those pieces are there, and it makes sense, you can buy into that, like, we need to have some of those pieces to get the sale. But like you said, there's just like this, this period where it's just like, turned on and full blown, and you know now I'm sending two emails a day to my list out of nowhere. No wonder things aren't landing like. I love that. You notice that gap, because there's a whole bunch of things like that are firing in my brain as you're talking about this, that are going, yeah, it makes total sense why a launch might not work if you just do the launch part, yeah,

Yes, totally, you're unpacking a lot of important things here with respect to buyer journey and, like, even buyer psychology and all of that stuff. And just to go back to the like, how did it even ever work? Like, in seven days, if you send nine emails, or whatever it is, the chances are one person is still only going to open, like, two or three of them. They're not even getting the whole scope of everything that you're sharing, which is why you're talking about a pre launch. So let's get some logistics here. Like, how long is a pre launch typically,

right? I say it's typically four to six weeks. And no, you're not selling during those four to six weeks. You're using your content very intentionally to support the sale. So sometimes people hear, Oh, it's just gonna elongate the sale. This is gonna make it so much longer. No. Like, hopefully before launch, you're putting out content, meaning podcasts, emails, social media, posts, whatever the mechanism is for you and how you run your business and your marketing, hopefully you're putting stuff out anyway. It's just a matter of thinking about the content that you are putting out a little bit different.

Yes, yes. And like you said, to help, like support people in shifting their beliefs through to a transformation that they need. I'm always curious about that, because I under i It's one of those things are, like, I understand it for other people. Like, I can't figure it out for my own like, business and client. So how do you walk through figuring that? Like, backing that up to, like, where do we need to meet them at that four to six weeks out from your program so we can figure out what kind of content and how to structure all of that.

Yeah, so it goes in a little bit into my framework that we do, but the first step that we do inside my program is research, which is not sexy, and the most important thing that you can do for your business. And it's funny enough, I'm in the very right now. I'm running my program, and we're on, I think, week two, where people are doing research, and I hear this every single time, like, wow. Like my eyes are open, like, I never thought about it like this. Like, really figuring out where is. This person. And so when we do research, I have my students interview people that have gone through their course, their service, their program, their membership, people that are already clients, and then also people who are someone that's on the fence, that is, you know, that has contemplated doing, taking your program, taking your service, someone who's, you know, maybe an ideal customer, but hasn't bought from you yet, and actually talking to those people, because, like you said, it's really figuring out where is this person at, like, Where, where is the starting journey of where someone is, and then figuring out, okay, now we have to get super clear on our offer and the way that we're presenting the offer so that we could figure out what, what do we need to say and do between those two end points?

Yes, yeah. And you're right, like, research is something that we maybe did, like, the first time we ever started to create a program or something, and then we're like, No, I don't do that anymore. And then you know how your brain evolves, and you can't remember what it was like to ever not know the thing like you forget how to relate back to the client where they're at right now, if this is a story of like, your own evolution and transformation, and you taking that and now teaching it to other people, you don't remember what it was like to be in that position like truly, because your brain has shifted. You don't care anymore.

You have all these natural biases that you don't even realize you have. And this is why all even your students, and that's why I say don't. Sometimes people will just talk to students that have gone through the program, and it's like, no, no, we need to talk to people who haven't, right? Because we even the I always say, like people that have gone through your program, we have taken advantage of your one on one service, or your membership, whatever it is, like they've already drank your Kool Aid, like they're they're already bought in, and they become, naturally a little biased. So it's yeah, getting a really, really clear picture on who this person is and where they're at is essential. And you know, if you've not, especially in the market that we're in, if you haven't done research, I'd say in the last like six to eight months, you're never going to go wrong having conversations with people and figuring out what they're struggling with, where they're at right now.

Do you have a, like, top secret question that you love to infuse into your research that's like, less generic then, what are you struggling with right now?

Yeah, I don't think it's I don't mind the somewhat generic question. So I'll answer that in two parts. The first one is, sometimes you have to ask the generic question to get the better answer, meaning when I say, when I say, okay, you know, Kelly, what are you struggling right now with pre launch? And you would say something like, I'm overwhelmed with with all the content. And I would say, Okay, well, tell me what overwhelm means. Like, what is that looking like in your day to day life? And so the secret questions are asking deeper and better questions. So yes, sometimes we have to get people's brain to start, like, firing of like, okay, yeah, this is what I'm struggling with. And I but then it's going okay now that you've said that, and you say that you're overwhelmed. Like, what does overwhelm mean to you? And then when you'd probably answer like, well, I have kids. They're, well, how am I supposed I'm from nine to two. I'm trying to do client work, from trying to do the client work, then how am I supposed to market myself? How am I going to carve out this extra time to start actually working on my content? And I'd be okay, great, now that you, now that you've told me that like and this is the second part, the things that I really want to hear during this interview is, yes, the struggles, the pain points of someone, but okay, what's the thing that stopped them from taking action? What's the thing that they've tried to take before? So now that I know a little bit more of that, like in this, like, fake conversation I just created in my head, I could go like, okay, great. So it sounds like you struck, if I'm hearing you, it sounds like you struggled putting out content right before launch before. Is that right? And you would go, yes, okay. What are the things that you've tried before to do this that starts to give me a glimpse into what you've tried, What stopped you from taking action, the things that maybe you're believing, like, oh, I don't have enough time to do this. Like, it starts giving me those glimpse and then essentially saying, Okay, now that I'm really clear on what you struggled with, now that I'm really clear on what stopped you from taking action, not what you've tried before, which kind of speaks into those myths and objections that we have around or the myths and objections around your offer, and then I can lean into okay. What is the thing that you really want? Like, okay, I want to be able to create a pre launch in not have it take that much time. Okay, what is time to like you? You just start feeding in. So the two parts of this is getting really clear on the struggles, the myths, the objections that people have around taking advantage of your service, your program, mastermind, course, whatever it is, and then going in figuring out, what is this thing that. Someone truly wants. And this goes beyond and I was just working on a student. I call it the outstanding offer overview today, like, what is the thing that the person really wants to walk away from? And a lot of times we don't realize that our what we think someone wants is not the way they're saying it in their head, right? So it's going and getting those deeper answers, which is going to be the secret weapon to creating the kind of content that we're talking about here.

Oh, this is so juicy. And I think one of the things that I heard you just say in a slightly different way, like, it means, like objections, but what you said was the thing that has stopped them from taking action, and they like that phrase a lot because it's like, it's their limitation, it's the thing that they think that they need that they don't have, whether that's knowledge or time or a skill set or something, and there's, like, A huge opportunity for you to either help them shift their belief that they don't actually need that, or to to take them that step, to get them to feel ready for what you actually have to offer then.

Yeah, I always say, like the secret, the tricky belief that you have to shift when you're working with someone is the belief that I can see those results, right? Whether it's something that something that's happened to us externally in the past, and that's why we haven't seen the results, or something internal, the way we talk to ourselves, the way we believe about ourselves, it's truly prepping the person that they can get the results, like I said, the things that they tried before that it's not, I guess you could say it's not their fault they haven't gotten results at times. So that's a really important part during pre launch too, is that we think sometimes that the reason why we're not seeing whatever that thing is on the other side that we want, whether it's anything from weight loss to creating a pre launch plan to, you know, it varies, whatever, whatever your niche is, but a lot of times we we don't believe that we have what it takes to do that. And it's kind of this sneaky belief. And this is, once again, why these launch emails like you, you're sending out and pounding people, which I'm all for writing launch emails, you know, but you're sending people nine, let's say anywhere between seven to 14 emails in this like seven, five to seven day period. But you're also dealing with people's deep beliefs, their concerns, their hesitations, that they it's hard to do all of that while trying to sell your offer at the same time. And that's what pre launch. Is it? It gives people a moment to breathe and reflect and ask themselves questions without having once again that like doors are closing, you know, messaging flying at them. It's a lot to ask of our students and clients to make these kind of decisions when there's so much going on in the background.

Yes, you've removed the need to make a decision from, like, the same brain capacity of also, like, just thinking and like, really, you know, and even, like, I tended to be, I don't know about you, like, as far as, like, what kind of buyer Are you? But I tended to be very like, I was a day one buyer for, like, everything that I did, because I was like, by the time I convinced myself I was going to do it, I'm like, I'm going to do it now. Like, I'm not waiting, which we can't evaluate whether that was a good call or not in certain situations. But like you said, you also feel really good when you have time to think about something. Like, I just booked a trip. I don't know, this is kind of a random example. I just booked a trip, and my habit of like, wanting to book that trip, like on the day that I first got the quote about it was like getting at me, but then I was like, No, I need time to actually make sure that my kids can be looked after that my dogs can be looked after that. It works for all of our caregiver people. And I need to ask them, like, several times so they don't feel like, forced to take on this, because I'm, like, preemptively thinking about what the future is. So like, like, you're sort of saying there, being able to think through a decision and then feel really good about making, taking the action to make that purchase, versus trying to do all that, and then, oh, something's gonna happen. And, like, I love to go back to what you said as well about the people who are buying, like, on a timer, who may, like, regret it, and then you're not getting a good client out of that. You're not, and not just for you, but you want the the impact. You want to be able to actually help them create the results. And maybe they're not actually ready for that.

Yeah, there's so much of what you said. Because when you have clients like better, you know, quote, better clients or students coming through, whatever it is that you offer, then when they're getting really good results, they start, I call it like the undercurrent. Work. Marketing, like I talk a lot about the front end marketing and what you need to say into but there's also the undercurrent the back end of your marketing was, what are your people? What are students saying about you? What is clients saying about you when you're not there? Who are they referring you to? And I know that, you know, I've seen it where I've had people join my program because someone else took it and they're like, Oh, you took this and you got this result. That's the result that I want, and then my front end marketing compounds that effect. So by doing these things is that you start getting better results for clients and students, which is what we all want, because you're calling in someone who's better equipped to to do the things that they need to do to get to the other side of their pain, whatever that is. And the other thing that is really important, too, is that, well, two things is that you talked about, you're like a fast decision maker, right? I I think through I worked with a friend, Linda sundu, and I learned a lot about disc and they're about half, half of us on the DISC profile, which is basically where they kind of test out your different personality traits. About half of people are slow decision makers. Half people are fast decision makers. So the launch thing might work great for that person who's like, Yep, I need this today. Hey, I'm gonna buy but for a slow decision maker like me, who's quietly watching in the background and observing what's going on. That person probably needs more time that seven day period doesn't actually feel get them like, oh, I want to buy now, of anything that might make them recoil a little bit because they go, Okay, this is too big of a decision for me to make in this time period. The other thing too is that, and I know we kind of talked about this on Voxer, is that this type of selling that I'm talking about too is also really great for you, right? Like, not just your buyers. We've talked a lot about that, but we discussed, like, last winter, I had an extremely rough winter knowing that my daughter was leaving. I joked like, I don't know, was it perimenopause? Was it, you know, being almost an empty nester. Was I just in a funk? I don't know I was. I was in something last winter, and I was still able to have a very successful launch and promotion period, because I was able just to slowly and systematically do these steps that we're talking about, right? It was like one foot ahead of the other, and it takes this pressure off of, okay, I only have seven days to sell. No, I was able to pre sell. I forget how many exactly, but I think it was around 30% of my spots from my from two rounds ago, I sold before the doors even opened. So I went into my launch, not having this tremendous pressure, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to sell this many spots and and I have a my program isn't a cheap program, so, like, people need a little bit of time, a lot of times, to make that decision. So what we're talking about here is not only great for the buyer, but it's also good for us, for the seller, because we're taking that, all of that pressure off of you know, and it allows you you have a week where you can't show up. It's not like your whole launch burns to the ground. And that's the problem with especially as moms, my friend Danna malstaff talks about this all the time, and she says, like, I'm like, the only person that should like, well, listen, because she doesn't do launches. She does evergreen. That's what she teaches. But it's because, in the past, the way launches have been done is like, if you went, if something ends up happening on that seven day period, and let me tell you, it always does. There's always something that happens during those seven days and you feel like, oh my gosh, everything, it's a bust. And that's what I don't want for you?

Yeah, yeah, you've read my mind the entire way through this interview. I was literally just gonna be like, can we case study now your pre launch? Go back to the last winter and talk about how that worked, but maybe just like, one more layer of detail, that means that you had stuff that you had pre prepared and was ready to roll out, like, in a more flowy for you, kind of pace and cadence, right, where you'd already had it ready, and then it could show up for you, and you were still able to see those results.

Yeah, and because, because of the process that I teach and show people, that I also do for myself, I'm not just like the coach and coaches coaches, right? Like I actually do this process myself in my own launches, and I, what I, what I was able to do is go back and take, okay, what worked during my last pre launch, and what can I carry over and repurpose, right? Like we're not recreating the wheel every time we're we have a set of data that we're able to take a look at and so I was able to pull older resources and repurpose them. I was able to create, you know, some new resources, like I did an email series that time, that I had never done before. But it's because I had this, like breathing space where I wasn't having to do everything at the last minute. I was able to. Prep ahead of time, because I knew what was coming, and I was also able to give myself grace. When there's things like, I think there's a delicate balance between the I'm going to give myself grace, but we don't want grace to become an excuse of sometimes we just got to do the thing. So it's like, okay, I know, I know, like, my bare minimum of what I feel like I need to do. How can I repurpose things to make it easier for myself, and how can I show up in spite of just having a super rough time? And like I said, I think my last launch, or now, now, that was two launches ago, it was a real testament, because I was like, Okay, if I like, I am not recreating the wheel here, like I'm, you know, I want to be able to show up for my students. I don't need all of this energy to go into my marketing, and then I can't, then I can't show up knowing just kind of like the mind frame I was in at that time. So I was able to, I say, repurpose probably seven to 80% of what I had done before, including my launch emails. I didn't do a webinar. I didn't have to do some of those things, and was still able to to really, you know, create like. I got to. I, I always think about it as like, is it good? Best, better? I always get right, yeah, right, right. Or maybe do better at best. Yeah, yeah. I got to my better goal by just doing these things that we're talking about here. So I think that is a real testament to to the process that we're talking about. And like I said, it's you're already doing the work. You're already putting out content. Let's just be smart about the content you're putting out so you work smarter, not harder?

Yeah, yeah, you're so right. I'd love to just take one more angle at this and talk about how pre launch can work for your first launch of something yes versus like you just gave an example where you were, you know, recycling. You've already done this. And also there's so many other advantages, obviously, of having an existing program with testimonials and proven results and all those things that you can lean on. And that's great, but you have to get there somehow, right? So if people are at like, it's my first time launching this thing, how does pre launch work in that context?

Yeah, no, I love this question. I don't know if anyone's asked me this question before. Question before. So coincidentally, I sold out my entire round of my first launch in pre launch. So I think a couple of things happened. Is, I you're able, like pre launching is extremely important if it's not your first one. So yeah, you might have a little bit more work, because you haven't created the assets that we talked about that you can repurpose once again, though, you're still creating, hopefully, assets anyway, in terms of content, whether it's your first launch or, you know, your your fifth launch of a program. So the beautiful part is that by doing this on your first launch, you're getting real time feedback, and that's the other thing that's really great about a pre launch. You're testing the market out for your messaging. What's the thing that's holding them back? Whether you're having conversations ahead of time, but you're able to help guide the rest of your pre launch and your launch? I think of one student of mine in particular I remember having this conversation with and she's like, gosh, if I had not done the pre launch, I would have gone a totally different direction during the launch. But based on my pre launch and what I was hearing and the different hesitations, I was able to take that information and put it into your launch. So it's you're essentially doing the same process, but it's as important as ever. And you can also be able to test things out in real time, get feedback in real time that you're able to create more additional content in an easier way, instead of just guessing what people want. The other thing that's great about a pre launch is that you're able to pre sell and so you can start selling spots ahead of time and validating your offer. So that's you can be validating also in real time. Now, I think one of the things that worked out really well for like my program right now is $3,500.05 $1,000 there's two tiers that first round of my program was also $1,000 so I just wanted to give context, because that one sold out in pre launch. Well, this was something that I had been talking about that people have been waiting for, and so when I, when I actually put this program out into the market, people knew I was like, Okay, this is the only time it's going to be this price of $1,000 and I had an upsell, but I don't remember what that upsell, the exact dollar amount was, but, but I think that also not that you have to discount or go in at beta pricing or first timer testing, but that will also help you if you're trying, because my whole point when I did that first launch was, okay, do. If I can get 12 students in the program at the time was eight weeks long, but I could get 12 students in at $1,000 that's $12,000 so and I was doing client work at the time, okay, I can tailor back on client work. I can make enough money to pay my expenses like I wasn't trying to have like a six figure launch on that first one, not that you can't, but this is just my reasoning. And and people are gonna pay me to create the course, because I create, I definitely would never create a course or a program in ahead of time, like I would have an outline and know, like, what you're gonna sell. But I essentially got paid to create this now asset, this IP that I now resell again and again. So that's also how you can kind of think about if you're going into a launch of the first program.

Yeah, I love all that, especially the don't make it before, before you sell it, kind of thing

I I've seen that like crash and burn big time and and if, for some reason, you come up with an idea, and it's not if it doesn't sell, then okay, yes, you spend some time, but you spend some time testing out an idea, not time where you've created this entire program, and then no one wants it. And it does happen?

Yeah, yes, it does. And I think it kind of comes back to what we were talking about, beginning by your own there's a true need for feedback in all of these pieces, in the way that you launch, by doing the pre launch and getting the feedback, like you were just saying, especially in your first round, and also on the program itself and the delivery, because you also learn about your messaging opportunities and your potential launch strategies that you can pull out of the conversations that you can have with people inside of the program, the feedback that you can get from the people who do show up for it, right? And like, how do you, you know, then, how do we find more of these people who are here? Like, what are the questions that they're having? And we can take that conversation and have it in a bigger platform, and then be attracting more people who then are, like, basically going down that pipeline to be ready for your program. So it's a necessary part for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I think you've summarized it perfectly.

Thanks. Well, I think we're done here, because this has been a really good conversation. And like, I feel like I'm getting to the part of the day where my brain stops, like computing, you know, it's starting to get earlier lately, but like this was such a good juicy, like strategy conversation to really see how these all, all these pieces layer together, how really infusing this pre launch period into the next time that you want to promote and sell your offer, can support you as well. From a lifestyle perspective, can really, like reduce the pressure. I think this is one of the biggest things that I'm taking away from this, and kind of like saying to myself as well, is that you don't have to feel so much pressure around, like a program launch necessarily. On one hand, yes, because if you said it was a group program, you need a group, and that's a hard thing sometimes, yeah, but at the same time, we don't have to just, like, have such a short window and then just go full tilt promoting, which I have done that before, and have had it both sort of work and not work, mostly not really work, and then also be exhausted at the end.

Yeah. So that's like, you're gonna do the work anyway. And that's my one of my students said this to me, and I think it's so good. She's like, you get to choose your heart. Like, I'm never, like, going to be like, Oh my gosh, launching and selling online, it's just so easy. Like, it can be easier, but I still think business, running a business, is just tough, but I do think we can make it easier on yourself, but you're going to choose your hard, and it's like, okay, is it going to be a little bit more hard up front, doing some of the things that we talked about, yes. But like, what's more hard than going through an entire launch, exhausting yourself, and then not having the sales and or the students, the right kind of students, part of that, of that program, and then we go back to like, it's almost like insurance. I think a pre launch is an insurance when you're a mom, because you have to have the It's Your insurance that if something your kid gets strep throat, you know they need something like you get sick during the lunch, whatever those things are that happen during that seven days. Once again, it's like, okay, I still I still pre sold. I still feel confident about the messaging that I'm putting out. I'm still getting feedback. I'm still able to really direct the. Halfway of my launch, it's like you're, instead of being in a reactionary position, you're going in and being in a very proactive position. And that's how I think about it.

And I just want to clarify one more thing, because we keep sort of saying seven day launch, seven day launch, like, that's like,

it doesn't have to be, I think it should. That's just like industry standard, it could be any day. Sometimes people have, like, a five day launch, a three day launch, sometimes people have a 10 day launch. So thank you for clarifying that. I think seven days seems to be the typical amount for a course or a program. But whatever that is, whether it's a shorter time period or a slightly longer, I would definitely not in this market ever do longer than a 10 day launch. Hit me up on Instagram. We can DM about it, if you think that you need one. But I would never go longer than in 10 days. So if anything, I go shorter, not longer in a launch period.

Well, especially launch, yeah, if you're pre launching for four to six weeks, like you've already been talking about it, like the awareness of the offer should already be there. It's just the actual like time to buy is now, and then there has to be a time that it ends, because something has to happen. You have to actually start the program, implement it, or change the price, or do something right,

Right. And if you're someone who's like, well, I sell something all the time, like, then I would think of, if you're selling something that's more an evergreen, I still 100% think that you shouldn't be having promotional periods. You're always going to make more money on a promotional period, a launch than on an evergreen where something someone can get something all the time, but maybe you have, like, a special bonus and special discount, something like that, for a specified period of time. That helps those people, especially those slow decision makers, take action because, because they know that they're going to be getting some type of reward, whether, like I said, whether it's discount or a bonus, something like that.

Yeah. Okay, amazing. Great clarifications. And before we sign off, two things. One is your best advice that you would love to give to earlier stage entrepreneurs, or any, any stage entrepreneurs, because it's a roller coaster. We feel like we reset sometimes, all the time. Like, what do you like to tell business owners?

Well, I think we kind of hit it at the beginning. And I think it's when I always say, when I started this business, I was 40 and no social presence. Like, I didn't even have a real Facebook account. I had a fake like profile that I use for clients, because you have to in order to post on someone else's Facebook, at least this way it was, you had to have some type of Facebook account. So I had, like, a fake, I had an alias Facebook account. So I had, like, no social presence. You know, I was 40 at the time, or I still don't, I didn't have a degree, but at the time I was I had my AA, but I had always felt like, oh, I should go back and finish school. I should have my four year degree. And so I think that whether it's the things that I disqualify myself from, or you might have another set of disqualifications, we're all qualified on for what we do. So I think it's not talking yourself out of being disqualified and being okay, like we said, to get the nose to do things scared, to do things a little. You know, it sounds cliche, but it's true. Do things messy. I still do things messy in my business, and it's funny, what you feel like is messy. I have people come back and someone told me today, like, gosh, it seems like you have all this together, like everything just seems like you're just, you know, you're just doing it. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's messy in the background. Like and I, and I've worked with entrepreneurs that are well, well more advanced than me, and their stuff is messy too, which is messy at different stages. So work through the mess, because that's where, you know, there's that quote that I just saw it somewhere, and it comes to mind as we're talking like clarity comes from action, but also clarity comes from those messy steps. So that would be my advice here. Is to to do it a little messy and to not disqualify yourself, because, you know, it's the person next to you is just disqualifying themselves for another reason that you're like, Wait, that wouldn't even matter to me. And I hear it, I always think about how I was so worried I didn't have a four year degree, and I felt old, and like I've never going through this. Like sometimes I still feel a little old, but like I've never had someone be like, Oh, can I hire you, but let me see you. Like, where did you graduate college from? No one, not once has ever said anything like that. And I almost didn't start my business because I I didn't feel like I was equipped.

Hmm, that you've like, so you've totally hit on my entire motto, which is messy action. Yeah, I love that. So good. Thank you, Brenna. Please tell everyone where they can connect with you and what you have that's exciting that they can check out.

Yes. So I'm on Instagram. Mostly you can come find me there at BrennaMcGowan.co I also have the behind the launch Facebook group, if you type in. Behind the launch with Brennan McGowan, you can find, and that's, we have a really active group where we talk all things marketing, pre launch. What's interesting on Netflix, it's a little bit of everything. You know, sometimes it's kids stuff, it's a little bit of it. And then the during this time that you're listening is, I'm actually promoting my conversation series called behind the launch. So if you're someone who's listening and you're like, Okay, I think I want to do a launch at some point, or I am doing launches, but like, what's working right now, especially in the, you know, financial environment we're in, in how people are thinking. So what I do is I have short conversations on boxer with 15 plus, I think it'll be more at this time industry experts, where I ask them one simple question, which is, what's something that worked well during your last launch? And you get to hear all of these different approaches and tactics for launching that you can kind of go through and pick and choose which ones are best for you and implement on your next promotional period.

Mm, hmm, so good. I have listened to that before. I think that's where I first found you, so I'll definitely be checking that out, and so should everyone who's listening to this. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom today. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.